Debate at its center does not find answers; and it never has. All it ever does is become a squabble over who controls the framework.
I never debate a fascist with the framework they want to have. I drive the argument to their personal self-interest; and how their leaders are deceiving them. They hate that.
Love the article, many good points. For those getting dragged along unwittingly, I would suggest not touching issues of race, immigration, antisemitism, etc. at all. I would suggest bridging the gap by making people aware the supremacists, the billionaires and their political foot soldiers are the ones making them poor and struggling. Cite some wealth statistics, teach them who the real enemy is in a way that speaks to their personal struggle. Don't worry about lifting their understanding any higher. They just need to be converted enough to understand who the enemy is so they work with us, not against us.
Really enjoy the idea of "witness" and "inform" as tactics. But... I currently can't trust humanity much, that "showing them the bigotry" will be enough. 2020 broke me. Or maybe just shown me a broken humanity. I mean, people can be really dumb (or make themselves dumb, as you pointed out greatly), or can really choose for the fascist path, just because.
Thank you so much for making explicit and clear some things that I suppose are stewing in my mind when I say, all too often: “ Either they’re stupid or malicious, but it doesn’t matter which, in the end, if fascism/racism/oppression is achieved”. Whichever place they’re standing, facts and provable reality is where I want them to get to, so why not normalize and platform that? Normalize calling out BS and fascist impulses. Normalize talking to people about the danger of dehumanizing and othering people. Normalize, and be louder about, witnessing.
I've been thinking along these lines for a while. Have you considered (or already done) a piece on abstractions? This is the main problem I run into with friends who are on the border of the willful ignorance phase. They abstract things to the plane of economics and claim that they actually have read a lot and studies show that bad things are good actually. On the one hand it has led me to learn economics to be able to understand and realize they don't k ow what they're talking about, but on the other hand it's a little harder to recognize the willful ignorance at first when someone seems to be citing research and information.
Not that you likely need my help, even if I had the time to provide it, but may I politely suggest that a proofreader/editor might make it easier for your readers to absorb clearly your intent?
When I reread a paragraph 2 or 3 times to mentally proof it to make sure I understood the point, I wonder how many readers may gloss over it and move on or possibly drift off altogether because it already was a fair task keeping up in the first place.
To be fair, you are getting better at it, but in my writing, which is mostly technical, I have learned that while proofreading almost never fixes everything, it’s helpful to assume that those who really are paying attention will appreciate the extra effort.
I especially related to this installment as one who often uses “when you’re ready to talk about reality, I’m more than happy to have that discussion with you” to end a futile exchange.
Also, count me among those who wish to be notified by email of a potential platform change.
Excellent analysis AR! 👏 I like your notion of "witnessing". It reminds me of what is called a "process" comment, which involves stepping out of the specific content frame of a conversation (and pausing the "debate") and simply noticing what someone is doing, especially for nefarious or harmful purposes. It's very quiet and powerful and disruptive of the steamroller effect of psychopaths who are thrilled by their own words and never listen.
This was SO VERY HELPFUL, and I think in some sense I have managed to "get there" emotionally with several people in my life, without the clarity provided with the conscious decision tree you illustrated. Giving up that struggle against their ever deepening embrace of an alternative reality has let me reclaim a lot of space and energy I kept giving to people who won't ever gain anything useful by my doing it.
When providing information doesn't ever move the viewfinder for them, then you have to admit they are invested in the view they've already got, whether out of willful ignorance or malignant misplaced supremacy.
Someone ought to make this series of posts a class/seminar/pamphlet/animated TedTalk called, "How to fight Nazis without getting your hands dirty."
I'm an abortion rights activist and one of the most vociferous abortion opponents I go up against is a Christian zealot who likes to challenge his ideological opponents to debate him. You can't debate a madman, though. 😀
"For some people the struggle to exist takes everything they’ve got. The cost of staying aware is high, and reality can be painful, so awareness can take serious effort, and can even be a privilege."
Honestly, I can find myself getting so angry that so many people can't seem to be bothered about finding out what's happening in the world, but when that happens, I try to fall back on my training as a teacher: If a given student isn't getting the mathematical concepts I'm trying to put across, it's not that they're stupid, and it might be that they got kicked out of the house by their parents and are now living in a car.
I, for one, really appreciate the visual aids. It's easy to lose track when you're dealing with "claims fascism isn't happening but actually knows it is" and "claims not to understand when they really understand too well."
One thing I'll say for my lefty politics is that I don't have to waste a second pretending to believe stuff I don't actually believe, or pretending not to know stuff I actually know. Takes a lot of the load off my mind.
This is also the very reason the people who own this platform should kick the Nazis/fascists off it--because they are helping to normalize it. (And I believe I saw somewhere--maybe on Bluesky--where you said you are going to be moving the Reframe elsewhere? I realize that is a major decision and there are considerable logistics involved, but just know that wherever you go, I will follow you.)
I know a guy named David Dark here in my beloved city of music who defines sin in a way that I am fond of. He says, “Sin is active flight from a lived realization of available data.” I see so many parallels between that and what you’ve expounded upon here in exquisite detail. The willful part is especially painful to deal with in one’s own family. I thank you for offering a very reasonable response - a beautiful, useful gardening tool - to cultivate what I want to see grow in each of us. Recognition and acceptance of reality.
Debate at its center does not find answers; and it never has. All it ever does is become a squabble over who controls the framework.
I never debate a fascist with the framework they want to have. I drive the argument to their personal self-interest; and how their leaders are deceiving them. They hate that.
Love the article, many good points. For those getting dragged along unwittingly, I would suggest not touching issues of race, immigration, antisemitism, etc. at all. I would suggest bridging the gap by making people aware the supremacists, the billionaires and their political foot soldiers are the ones making them poor and struggling. Cite some wealth statistics, teach them who the real enemy is in a way that speaks to their personal struggle. Don't worry about lifting their understanding any higher. They just need to be converted enough to understand who the enemy is so they work with us, not against us.
Really enjoy the idea of "witness" and "inform" as tactics. But... I currently can't trust humanity much, that "showing them the bigotry" will be enough. 2020 broke me. Or maybe just shown me a broken humanity. I mean, people can be really dumb (or make themselves dumb, as you pointed out greatly), or can really choose for the fascist path, just because.
Ms. Stefanik is a member of the House, not the Senate.
Assuming you have my email and that you might entertain some free assistance, feel free to reach out.
I write against fascism and white supremacy. I like the idea of thinking of it as "witnessing." Thanks.
Thank you so much for making explicit and clear some things that I suppose are stewing in my mind when I say, all too often: “ Either they’re stupid or malicious, but it doesn’t matter which, in the end, if fascism/racism/oppression is achieved”. Whichever place they’re standing, facts and provable reality is where I want them to get to, so why not normalize and platform that? Normalize calling out BS and fascist impulses. Normalize talking to people about the danger of dehumanizing and othering people. Normalize, and be louder about, witnessing.
I've been thinking along these lines for a while. Have you considered (or already done) a piece on abstractions? This is the main problem I run into with friends who are on the border of the willful ignorance phase. They abstract things to the plane of economics and claim that they actually have read a lot and studies show that bad things are good actually. On the one hand it has led me to learn economics to be able to understand and realize they don't k ow what they're talking about, but on the other hand it's a little harder to recognize the willful ignorance at first when someone seems to be citing research and information.
Not that you likely need my help, even if I had the time to provide it, but may I politely suggest that a proofreader/editor might make it easier for your readers to absorb clearly your intent?
When I reread a paragraph 2 or 3 times to mentally proof it to make sure I understood the point, I wonder how many readers may gloss over it and move on or possibly drift off altogether because it already was a fair task keeping up in the first place.
To be fair, you are getting better at it, but in my writing, which is mostly technical, I have learned that while proofreading almost never fixes everything, it’s helpful to assume that those who really are paying attention will appreciate the extra effort.
I especially related to this installment as one who often uses “when you’re ready to talk about reality, I’m more than happy to have that discussion with you” to end a futile exchange.
Also, count me among those who wish to be notified by email of a potential platform change.
Excellent analysis AR! 👏 I like your notion of "witnessing". It reminds me of what is called a "process" comment, which involves stepping out of the specific content frame of a conversation (and pausing the "debate") and simply noticing what someone is doing, especially for nefarious or harmful purposes. It's very quiet and powerful and disruptive of the steamroller effect of psychopaths who are thrilled by their own words and never listen.
This was SO VERY HELPFUL, and I think in some sense I have managed to "get there" emotionally with several people in my life, without the clarity provided with the conscious decision tree you illustrated. Giving up that struggle against their ever deepening embrace of an alternative reality has let me reclaim a lot of space and energy I kept giving to people who won't ever gain anything useful by my doing it.
When providing information doesn't ever move the viewfinder for them, then you have to admit they are invested in the view they've already got, whether out of willful ignorance or malignant misplaced supremacy.
Someone ought to make this series of posts a class/seminar/pamphlet/animated TedTalk called, "How to fight Nazis without getting your hands dirty."
I'm an abortion rights activist and one of the most vociferous abortion opponents I go up against is a Christian zealot who likes to challenge his ideological opponents to debate him. You can't debate a madman, though. 😀
Also, thanks for this:
"For some people the struggle to exist takes everything they’ve got. The cost of staying aware is high, and reality can be painful, so awareness can take serious effort, and can even be a privilege."
Honestly, I can find myself getting so angry that so many people can't seem to be bothered about finding out what's happening in the world, but when that happens, I try to fall back on my training as a teacher: If a given student isn't getting the mathematical concepts I'm trying to put across, it's not that they're stupid, and it might be that they got kicked out of the house by their parents and are now living in a car.
I, for one, really appreciate the visual aids. It's easy to lose track when you're dealing with "claims fascism isn't happening but actually knows it is" and "claims not to understand when they really understand too well."
One thing I'll say for my lefty politics is that I don't have to waste a second pretending to believe stuff I don't actually believe, or pretending not to know stuff I actually know. Takes a lot of the load off my mind.
Once again, a home run.
This is also the very reason the people who own this platform should kick the Nazis/fascists off it--because they are helping to normalize it. (And I believe I saw somewhere--maybe on Bluesky--where you said you are going to be moving the Reframe elsewhere? I realize that is a major decision and there are considerable logistics involved, but just know that wherever you go, I will follow you.)
I know a guy named David Dark here in my beloved city of music who defines sin in a way that I am fond of. He says, “Sin is active flight from a lived realization of available data.” I see so many parallels between that and what you’ve expounded upon here in exquisite detail. The willful part is especially painful to deal with in one’s own family. I thank you for offering a very reasonable response - a beautiful, useful gardening tool - to cultivate what I want to see grow in each of us. Recognition and acceptance of reality.